In 1228, it appears that which exact same Clemence along with her husband Nicholas have been selected for custody off Joanna and Llywelyn's daughter Susanna (aged about 14?). is apparently to the child getting raised for the a safe and safer environment for the chance for a much better education. the case had been are left off their. The brand new custodial give are from the King Henry III, half-sister to Joanna and you will 50 % of-uncle in order to Susanna, the decree entitled Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and you may Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'
A concern now presents in itself. When the Joanna is this new child regarding Clemence le Boteler, out of, frequently a keen English domestic, how do we explain just what Joanna is actually undertaking from inside the France when Queen John sent for their own within the 1203? You to definitely you can easily answer is that Clemence's father, Philip ce Boteler is French, unlike English. It had been very common at the time for all those to hold characteristics into the both sides of your own Route. It ed his dilies compared to English family members during this time period.
The actual only real guide where I have discovered a mention of Clemence Pinel – partner from Henry Pinel (apart from Charles Cawley into the Wikipedia) is within Alison Weir's ‘England's Regal Group: The entire Genealogy and family history (London area, 1989).' So it guide was detailed of the one to genealogist while the ‘not as fully annotated.' My personal trawl through the genealogy and family history message boards located scant reference https://brightwomen.net/no/estonske-kvinner/ toward Pinel family relations, in addition to Clemence's husband Henry Pinel. Multiple entries suggest that Joanna was brand new daughter off Henry Pinel along with his spouse Clemence, but zero provide, capable of being featured, are offered. I'm ergo inclined to write off so it lady regarding next investigation. I can getting really incorrect.
Number out of Mortain, in the Normandy, know regarding their unique [and maybe
Clemence de- Fougers try the cousin of Richard de Hommet, Constable away from Normandy, and you may Geoffrey de- Fougeres. Their unique dad was William du Fougers. You will find no day away from delivery (or passing) of Clemence, however, she was initially married in advance of 1200 (no date available) to help you Alan de- Dinan, and you may was well-known adequate to wed in October 1200, given that their own second spouse, Ranulph de- Blundeville, Earl regarding Chester and you will Vicomte d'Avranches, has just separated (matrimony annulled?) regarding Constance regarding Brittany.
In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ’s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured one to Earl Ranulph separated Constance for having got an affair with King John!
Needless to say, carry out which Clemence function as mommy away from Joanna, she would additionally be new grandmother regarding Susanna, however, there is not any reason to believe the more youthful Joanna realized, now, there is a family dating, if
Given that Clemence de- Fougers try daughter and you will cousin from Constables from Normandy, It’s imagine possible that John, *knew* their unique, prior to their marriage so you can Ranulph]. A virtually connection to John you will describe what might hunt an incredibly useful 2nd matrimony to have Clemence to help you Ranulph.
Ranulph, six th Earl out of Chester not, is actually an effective baron therefore beggars trust, at the very least in my situation, which he might have accepted a marriage to help you a lady just who got had a known affair and you can a subsequent child by the John, Matter from Mortain some 10 years previously. Such as for example given the rumours surrounding a possible affair between John and you can 1st spouse Constance!